Let’s kick off the second half of this lovely 8th season with this blog. When we last talked, I was in a good mood. I haven’t been in a good one since that 7th episode. SO let’s do this!! Always feel free to leave your own thoughts in the comments section. All messages in bold are written by Kent, and I know damn well that some of you just come to read my responses to you.
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The 9
- Let’s start off with the obvious topic. What are your thoughts on Enid killing Natania and what repercussions will come from this, in your opinion? Speculate away. Gold stars will be awarded for funny responses.
Bob: Oceanside will now side with the Alexandrians. Natania was the only person holding them all back. Nantania’s non-child may have some trust issues with Enid, but… maybe Enid dies as a price to be paid…? (I don’t know if a price has to be paid. I question how many people fully backed Natania. I am curious. But hey, let’s just kill off all of the young people, why not, right? In theory, Enid should be killed.)
Brian: another Ricktard move. Now Oceanside will join forces with negan and rule the world. And Enid will be given to negan as a sex slave. (Sex slave? Is Enid of legal age? Okay, she is 18, so this comment gets a gold star!! Oceanside is so going to start a social media movement.)
Raylene: Well thankfully Natania is dead she wasn’t helping Oceanside they unfortunately needed to make some progress and would have been discovered eventually. Enid will be killed by the followers of Natania. (As I said, if Carl’s dead, Enid serves no purpose sadly.)
Kent: If Carl is dead, I can see Enid also getting killed as a penalty. Her character hasn’t served much of a reason, only as a potential love interest for Carl. With that being said, it never made sense because one of the big reasons that the group has issues with the next big bad group is due to Carl playing the white knight for the leader’s daughter. The hope I had was that Oceanside was going to turn into the big bad group, but nah, fuck that. I say that they may as well kill her and we find Heath’s dead body nearby.
- Did you feel that this was really the appropriate time for Aaron to have Enid practicing her driving skills?
Bob: I mean, really, when is a good time in a word like this? I mean, whew, Enid is over 16 so we’re not breaking that law. (It’s important not to break the law in the ZA. I would think that aside from learning to shoot, kids should be getting driving lessons in these communities. It’s a very needed skill. How funny would it be to see a kid driving and Officer Friendly pulling them over?)
Brian: my first thought was who cares….. but upon reflection, I believe that it’s a skill that must be learned so why not now. (It really is a needed skill to survive, in my opinion.)
Raylene: Perhaps Aaron’s exhaustion finally caught up with him and he physically couldn’t drive anymore. (He needs a Stu Redman from Stewarts. For those unfamiliar, Stewarts is a local gas station with food and lots of ice cream and they have their own cans of energy drink. We call them Stu Redmans, in honor of Stu from The Stand because his real name is Stewart, played by the great Gary Sinise. What the fuck were we talking about again?)
Kent: This baffled me in the moment, and actually annoys me even more in hindsight. Even if she has to run, she clearly has a better chance of escaping on foot as she is nimble and great at hiding, whereas her trying to escape via car would potentially be a death sentence, that she may be facing in February.
- Ezekiel appears to be in quite the predicament. Carol and Morgan are lurking. Will he be saved in time, and if so, by whom?
Bob: I think he will be saved only to have been mortally wounded. Both Carol and Morgan, like Daryl’s’ garbage truck kind of timing. (We really need a term for TWD Timing. Let’s work on a term. That may be a question for this coming week’s blog.)
Brian: He will be saved on another last minute totally illogical event and a Morgan king Carol love triangle will develop with a bitter Daryl killing Morgan on hopes to hold on to his trailer park sweetie..(Hahaha, another vote of confidence for TWD timing!)
Kristi: He will be saved. I see Morgan saving him this time since Carol was his hero last time. (Either way, can they play “I Need a Hero” when it happens? I don’t ask for much.)
Raylene: First of all Ezekiel put himself in that predicament when he chained himself in with them. I can see him being the other big death. (Ezekiel feels similar to Morgan to me. He is so much cooler on TV so his character may have greater longevity in the show. Of course Carl was way cooler in the show and……well there went my happiness.)
Kent: Well, there is no need for another huge death for a few episodes, especially somebody as beloved as Ezekiel. With that being said, maybe it happens. TWD has a penchant for doing huge deaths one right after the other. Think about this. There’s Dale & Shane, T Dog & Lori, Andrea & Merle, Herschel & Governor, Lizzie & Mika, Beth & Tyreese, Deanna/Jessie/Sam/Ron, and Abe & Glenn. Yeah, there is quite the history there. Yikes, I am now convinced that somebody else dies in episode 9. I can see both Carol and Morgan do work and set him free. I thought the dude who portrays Gavin has done an excellent job in his role and really wish to commend it. He nails it in every scene.
- Ezekiel seemed to be able to move pretty good tonight. Do you ever wonder how these people heal so fastly despite the lack of doctors and good first aid and whatnot?
Bob: Actually, I really think that you don’t have time to pity yourself.
People know they have to cope and move on pain or not. It’s a survival mode, not the comfy lifestyle we live here. (Huh, a MR T reference. That’s a gold star. If you ever want to see something amazing, try to find MR. T’s WWE Hall of Fame speech. It is one of the best things I have seen this decade.)
Brian: he has been sitting on his ass reflecting on the error of his ways and his body is rested. Or tiger blood!! (Yeah, of course it’s Tiger Blood. He knows what he’s doing.)
Kristi: I mean, he has done nothing but rested since he was injured so I think that has helped the healing process. Also, although he knows he is not a King, he still cares for his people so he may be oblivious to the pain. (I really wish I knew the time frame. That is why it is tough to call bullshit on anything not involving ambulances or people falling from dumpsters.)
Raylene: Perhaps the adrenaline flowing helped him move quickly and when he can relax some his injuries will catch up to him. (Maybe he had one of those adrenaline shots like in Pulp Fiction. Hopefully he had a little black medical book with a felt pen.)
Kent: I know that it makes for better TV to have your stars heal faster so that they aren’t on the sidelines, but it feels beyond unrealistic time after time after time. Rick last sold an injury in season 4. Herschel had to see the amputation and Carl and Governor had to sell the missing eye. I get the concept of adrenaline, especially in life or death situations, but this happens too often for people who are not eating all that great I can’t imagine. The body can only do so much.
- Why did Maggie choose to kill Dean instead of somebody like Jared or even Gregory?
Bob: He was the biggest guy. You always punch the biggest guy in the face to prove a point. Maybe he looked like Simon to her. (Yeah, this is why I don’t want to go to midget prison. I’d be getting punched all the time.)
Brian: Maggie wanted to show Jesus that she has his back. Dean was mean to Jesus. So she picked him. I think the widow knows that she needs Jesus to help control the rest. (In the words of Jesus, the bowled in Big Lebowski, “Nobody fucks with the Jesus” so you have a point. He’s not a good leader, but you want him on your side.)
Kristi: I don’t think it was a long thought process. He was an ass and she was over it. Pissing off an angry pregnant woman with a gun is never a good idea. (Really, what rational prisoner pisses off a pregnant widow with a gun? Exactly.)
Raylene: Maybe because she was there when Dean attacked Jesus so she saw him being a threat. (It’s a solid move to keep Jesus on your side, no doubt.)
Kent: No F’n clue. I would have probably shot Gregory first, if I was Maggie. He may not be as much of a threat physically, but he is a smart and worthy adversary. Jared is just a dick who should have gotten got a long time ago, probably by Richard last year. I miss Richard. I was watching the marathon on Sunday at various times, and by and large, I liked his character, despite his mistakes.
- Will Maggie ever use any of her POW’s as trade bait, or is this where she makes a statement that Maggie is not to be trifled with via some executions?
Bob: No trifling! She isn’t trading anything unless it is for a leader OR it will be a dumb trade for an inconsequential character in an attempt to show some moral or compassionate move. (While I agree with your early sentiment, I fear it is the latter that will happen….sigh. We will call that character Tara or Enid.)
Brian: we saw it already. She is cracking and will crumble before she has to execute any more innocent people. I see Jesus saving the pows cause he realizes how wrong the Ricktards are. (I do believe that Maggie is cracking. I am still not of the belief that she is some good leader because her husband died and she’s pregnant.)
Kristi: I don’t see a trade ever happening. Negan just doesn’t care enough to have that be something that would go down. She’s just going to take them out as she goes. Do not trifle with Maggie. (Honestly, I think Negan recognizes the value of having people following his cause and he would consider some trade, especially during ALL OUT WAR!!!)
Raylene: I think this is her breaking standpoint she’s going to keep killing until they back down (I could see that. She is pregnant and slightly moody.)
Kent: I’m not sure if she needs to use them as trade bait at this point. We know via preview that the group plans on heading to Hilltop to make a stand. I would possibly use it as trade bait to get Dr. Carson back if he was still screwed, but that’s about it. There is officially no reason to keep them alive as they are eating needed resources.
- Okay, I saved 3 spots for the big one. First off, in the season premiere, we saw visions of Old Man Rick. In those visions, we saw Michonne, Carl, and Judith who had grown up by several years at that point. I know you all want to put your own spin on it, so I expect you to. With that being said, I see it as 3 possibilities. The first being that Rick has lost his mind, which would go along with the helicopter possibly. We know how Rick reacts to death in the family. The second is that those scenes were just a dream, sorta like the ones of Glenn and Abe and the group having dinner around the table in the season 7 premiere. The final possibility is that TWD is pulling a Glenn and Carl is somehow going to make it out of this situation alive in some ridiculous fashion and the visions were, in fact, true. What do you think?
Bob: Old man Rick was a dream-like sequence. It is from the mind of Rick in things he hopes for as the future. He is hoping for the best possible outcome. (That would make some sense. Rick is a believer in making things work. Hell, he tried to make it work with the Governor.)
Brian: The blue meth finally gets to Rick and he realizes that he is the cause for all the pain in his family’s life and that starts his mental breakdown. Or does the truth finally get realized and Rick is a mental patient and is making it all up. (If it’s the latter, I am going to sit back and laugh at the outrage.)
Raylene: I am thinking that everyone is dead Michonne, Carl, and Judith. Rick is the only survivor. (You believe the show would be insane enough to kill the second most important after the war, a child, and a bad ass leading black lady. Nice.)
Kent: I admit it, I am deeply saddened by this. This is probably one of the 3 or 4 saddest things that I have seen on a fictionalized show. It’s there with Opie’s death in Sons, Phil Hartman’s passing on Newsradio, and Taker losing his streak at Wrestlemania XXX. With that being said, I am fairly certain that this is it. The opening scenes in this episode, and even the season, have all geared up to this moment in a brilliant manner. Well, brilliant if you can find brilliance in your favorite character’s death. I think that Rick is slipping back into season 3 mode. When they did those flashbacks, we cut back to Rick’s red teary eyes. That was a big clue. Carl’s reaction when he helped Siddiq was also there. Then the speech to Negan, it was all there. I can’t rationalize a bullshit Glenn situation, but I wish I could. Old Man Rick sequences was a way to fuck with the comic fans, and I told you all that it was not a reference to the time skip. I suggested that it may be the series finale. So I was half right. That’s worth something…..right?
- If Carl is in fact dying, would Rick bury the hat with him or would he keep it to help memorialize Carl?
Bob: The hat would best be suited for a headstone or wooden cross on Carl’s grave. Or Rick might have to pull a Governor and Zombie Carl can still have his hat. (I do love the idea of it being used on a cross for Carl. I think that would be a nice touch.)
Brian: Rick buries arl and leaves hat as marker… however, the last thing Rick sees before he dies is Negan wearing the hat as Lucille delivers her justice. (That got dark really fast. It would be a shocker…..no not that kind of shocker.)
Kristi: He will keep the hat. Maybe hang it in Judith’s room. (Does Judith have a room anymore?)
Raylene: I think he’ll pass it on to Judith in time (A vote for passing down something that has not been very lucky. How many months until Judith gets shot if that’s the case?)
Kent: I hope that Rick keeps it to give it to Judith later on, or maybe Michonne wears it in honor or Carl. I am going to say that it’s kept, but I can really see it go either way.
- Who do you think is going to take this harder: Rick or Michonne?
Bob: Rick. Period. He is Carl’s father and out of sheer respect of that Michonne has to set aside her grief for his. (Rick has never had more motivation than he will after this, and it is going to hit him very hard. I agree.)
Brian: Michonne I think cause she thought of him as a son. (Michonne has lost family too and her and Carl have a unique bond. Beyond Andrea, Carl has been the closest thing to Michonne withough physicall being in Michonne. I felt you would enjoy that one.)
Kristi: Rick. Although Michonne seems to be having a hard time lately. It will hit her hard also but Rick is going to be a hot mess. It will definitely be the cause of a breakdown. (Hot mess!!! Now that is an accurate term for what I imagine Rick will be for awhile.)
Raylene: Both will take it hard Rick will just go insane and Michonne may go back to her loaner state with Walkers attached to her (If Michonne can go back to that state of mind and being a non lovey dovery bad ass, that wouldn’t be the worst thing ever, would it?)
Kent: If what I have already said is accurate in that Rick is losing his shit again, that’s tough to top. How would you top that? Michonne going rogue for a bit, as she does in the comic. Of course, she’s not in a relationship with Rick in the comic, so this would be quite different, but why stop now? We just killed the main fucking future star of this fucking show for no damn good reason. Fuckin pricks! (Will you settle down?)
Bonus Double Deuce
- Is everybody finally happy that Daryl got his vest back?
Bob: It was anticlimactic, but yes. (But more importantly, did you cry when it happened? I did.)
Brian: Not really I can only hope he gets careless and Negan finally puts him out of his misery. ( I would be soooo happy if that happened.)
Kristi: I mean, it’s a vest. Not really important at this point in the game. (But, but, but, it’s what Daryl stands for and represents….I can’t. Seriously some people care though.)
Raylene: Who gives a shit about Daryl anymore (Old white women.)
Kent: Yeah. You wanna know why? Because I wanna see that useless fuck get killed in the next episode. Tara is still queen of my anger, but Daryl is now her king. Daryl fucked everything up and I hold him accountable for Carl’s death. If Daryl stopped being so damn selfish, maybe the plan is executed faster. Maybe if he doesn’t wrestle with Rick and make shit explode, maybe they are done significantly earlier and Carl doesn’t go out wandering doing Carl things. Really Daryl, that was your BIG concern was getting your fucking vest back? Your whole colony just went up in flames, but let’s rip the vest off of the guy that just saved your bitch ass. He is such a useless character now. I don’t know the exact point where he went wrong, but I am fairly sure Beth was involved. Death to super Daryl!!!! I am not apologetic for my hate towards his character. His careless antics have killed or led to far too many deaths in this show, yet so many people keep acting like he’s a good guy. No! At least Negan tries to keep his people safe, but he’s supposed to be the bad guy? Are you fucking kidding me? No, Daryl is worse than Negan. I sentence Daryl to life in the cell with Easy Street on repeat. End rant…for now. (Sooooo angry dude. Relax.)
- In the season premiere, we hear Rick say: “My mercy prevails over my wrath.” I think that Siddiq also says this to Carl. There is a line like this in the Koran. It’s a loaded quote, obviously, or else they wouldn’t repeat it and name an episode in reference to it. What does it mean for the show’s purposes?
Bob: Wrath is a form of judgement. So if we break it down and reword it to “My mercy prevails over my judgment” what do we have? We have a simple play on words, but it is not deceiving or tricky in any way. If Mercy is the primary thought and wrath/judgement is secondary, wrath is not eliminated from an act of mercy. This means to me, that whomever says this, believes they are being fair and merciful but will take an act of wrath to fulfill that mercy. (I don’t have anything to add to this other than I fully expected a response of this nature and you did not let me down. Good answer!)
Brian: Negan has shown Rick mercy a bunch. Rick and his family have not been harmed directly by Negan. Ricks rath toward Negan has caused all his family’s pain. Rick is a horrible leader and an even worse father. (You’re not wrong. Negan did return Carl totally unscathed. People forget hopw many times Negan could have killed Carl, but he didn’t.)
Raylene: Rick is going to blame Daryl and Tara for Carl death bite (Oh, that would give me such a clue!)
Kent: There’s a lot going on with this particular quote. Something we never really touched on in regards to the season premiere was how Carl’s actions mirrored Rick’s in the very first episode. That’s a thing and it’s on the internet, so read up on it if this is news to you. As for the quote, it holds many layers. I was too stupid to notice when Siddiq had said them that it was the exact same phrase. It’s one last way to tie Negan to Carl. Those words are very much about Negan. Negan will not be killed by Rick at the end of the war….at least I don’t think he will. What really grinds my gears is that the BEST part of the comics for me after All Out War was the relationship that Carl and Negan end up developing. I have been alluding to those scenes over the years in this blog, and it seems like those hopes are dashed, so I don’t feel like I gotta say spoiler. Now I’m pissed again. (Somebody get this man a drink!)
- In the comics, Carl actually really grows into quite a big character, and a lot of what I assumed would be in season 9 and 10 revolved around Carl. The show has stuck relatively close to the comic in a general sense 75-80% of the time. Does this mark a potential huge shift away from the comics where it truly becomes it’s own entity, or do you think this is another blip on the radar in the same way that Daryl and Merle weren’t in the comics, or that Carol had died in the prison, but is still alive on the show?
Bob: I think the show is doing what it is always doing. It wanted to shock people like you, Kent. To me, a non-comic reader, this was another main character dying. It definitely meant more for you because you had an expectation. I didn’t have that. (That is 100% the truth.)
Brian: The producers at making a huge mistake by making the show all about Rick. I think a lot of shows make this mistake. In a za people will die off people will rise to power and fall off. This show has gone long enough about Rick. It’s time we follow a different character’s rise to power or end the show. (This also true. Would Game of Thrones be any fun if the same person was in control the whole series? Hell no. People are going to rise and fall. We need Clay Morrow taking over!
Raylene: With this fucking show now who knows. They have fucked things up royally. (Like a Royale with cheese? Is your anger directed towards the metric system?)
Kent: This seems as good of a time as any to really stray away from the comics. The whole thing with the next big bad group has already lost it’s luster due to this Carl shenanigans. That whole story arc is Carl’s becoming a man story and it’s just gone. Poof! I don’t really see the sense in it anymore. I’d rather skip it entirely because then I don’t have to get sad over another scene later on. (I bet that scene involves Lucielle.)
- Finally, give me your fondest Carl memory.
Bob: Carl not shooting his potential brother-in-law from the lady who had two kids and he was abusive to her. The older son. That whole interaction, but mostly his response – Carl not ratting him out. (Ohhhh, that is a good one.)
Brian: Carl was the only Ricktard that Negan respected and talked to. Hopefully, he can be the first to no die. Maybe the helicopter has antidote. (Arl was also the first Funko I ever had hand decorated by you sir.)
Kristi: When he put Shane out. That was my, “this kid’s a badass moment”! (Yeah, it was super pivotal. Most people point to him taking out Lori, but this was more pivotal, no doubt.)
Raylene: The first three seasons Carl was quite annoying but once they had to flee the prison and were alone in the house he really came into his own. I honestly thought they were grooming him to take over the show. My favorite memory was when we first saw him drive it made me laugh. (Carl driving was a true peice of art. I wish we could have seen some outtakes of that day.)
Kent: I have so many of them. I think one that really helped cement his awesomeness in my eyes was how he talked to Rick in episode 9 of season 4 after everybody had scattered from the Prison and Rick had been shot. Carl had this breakout episode and he has continued shining from that point on. This episode, I loved his talk with Negan, and I thought that maybe, just maybe this would tie into what was to come after the war. I also loved how Carl simply manned up in the lineup scene and how he tried to take out Sanctuary by himself. All great stuff. He has pretty much had a Maximus story though. He went through so much shit, just like Maximus. As sad as it was when he died in Gladiator, you were happy that he could finally be at rest. If I can take anything away from this, it’s that Carl can finally rest. He saw his new best friend get shot in the head by his father, had to put down the other man in his life in Shane, had to help deliver his sister and put his mom down, had to really run things when his dad lost his shit, saved Tyreese’s group, got shot by Otis and Ron, had no eye, was disfigured, had the holy hell scared out of him by Joe and the Claimers, The Termites, and Negan, he infiltrated The Sanctuary and got humiliated a bit by Negan, and still, throughout it all, he just tried doing the right thing and recruit for the future. I know that some of you haven’t been as high on Carl as I have, and to each their own, but this story has truly been remarkable, in my opinion.RIP Arl.
Final Thoughts – Did this episode make you look forward to the second half of this season, or did it turn you off? Also, please give any parting thoughts before we go on a 2 months break.
Bob: I’m ready for more… finally. This dragged on and on. This blog is the only things that kept me watching the show. (You and many others I do believe. AMC should start paying us for keeping their small show relevant!)
Brian: it really wasn’t all out war. All the Ricktards did was lose more people following Rick and pissed of Negan more and the Oceanside people. (But Aaron’s boyfriend died. That was sooooo important! Hah!)
Raylene: Nope it pissed me the fuck off and I am probably done with the show. After they killed Abe I wasn’t sure if I should continue on then this happened with Carl and it enraged me so fuck you Robert Kirkmen and Scott Gimple. (They thrive on your tears.)
Kent: No, I’m not looking forward to it. By February, I may feel differently. In this moment, no, I’m not looking forward to it. I know that may be a childish way of handling things, so be it. This season has had so many stupid scenes with wasting ammo, exploding shit, not following the plans, and getting vests back, really Carl was a pillar of hope. That was the greatest sin that you can commit in this show. I fear for all black males on the show. There is no way that Morgan, Gabe, and Ezekiel all survive the season. Finally, we lost one of the original 5. We are down to Rick, Carol, Daryl, and Morgan. This one stings wayyyy more than Glenn. To officially update my favorite characters, it looks something like this: 1. Carol 2. Eugene 3. Negan 4. Jerry 5. Simon 6. Gregory 7. Gavin 8. Gabe 9. Ezekiel 10. Dianne 137. Daryl 138. Tara. (It’s February…..no, still bummed out.)
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