This episode, we have the aftermath of the hilltop battle with The Whisperers. This included some pretty big deaths and a nice reveal at the end. My name is Kent, and I ask 5 weekly questions and then people answer them. Any comments in BOLD are written by me. I hope you enjoy and if you or someone you know may want to do this blog, contact me, leave a comment, etc.
1. Were you at all disappointed in how fast the war ended at Hilltop? It was over after the first segment. Did you think the other aspects of the episode were more important and outweighed the need for a Game of Thrones full war type episode?
Bob: in a word. Yes. I think Negan crushing the skull with his bat of the hilltop guy instead of having him join the herd was a big foreshadow. (Yeah, shockingly TWD used some traditional storytelling. It’s nice when they do it and it makes sense.)
Raylene: I am all for not having a long drawn out war scene. We are supposed to believe that Alpha’s huge horde was stopped that quickly. (You’re still mad that you couldn’t see half of the big battle in GoT, aren’t you? I still am upset by that.)
Kent: I get that they had a lot going on in this particular episode, but you couldn’t have expanded it by another segment or two? Ohhh no, AMC would hate to air extra footage of the #! Show on Cable, especially with Talking Dead being on hiatus. Yes, this irked me, Yes, unfortunately, the other aspects outweighed the battle, and that also irks me. Just give us an all-out battle episode. The solution was to simply make a big pile of walkers? WEAK!
2. Gamma finally had a chance to hold her nephew Adam, then saved Aaron, Adam, and Kelly by causing a walker distraction. And then in that moment of elation, you knew that she was gonna get got. Did you feel that Gamma had more to offer the show or was this a perfect arc for her character?
Bob: I thought she would have ended up having more to offer. She had less forehead this episode and I thought she looked more attractive, meaning she had to get got. I knew in her moment of celebration that it was DONE. (She brought that fivehead down to a forehead and looked much more like an American Beauty. Traditionally, this show doesn’t cast many traditionally attractive women, and when they do, they tend to not last long. Maggie is the exception. I don’t want to make a list, but it’s simply been the way of TWD. And I will say that it is pretty smart, in my opinion.)
Raylene: I thought as soon as Gamma held her nephew she was done. I expected it to be Alpha, not Beta. I think Gamma would’ve been a good addition to help raise her nephew with Aaron who seemed to have sparked interest in her. (We had some nice bits with Aaron and it definitely felt like there would be an episode or two to really flesh out that relationship, but then happiness happened, and then Beta happened.)
Kent: My goodness, that was a brutal death. I don’t want to go and say that it was top 10, but it may be up there. That was great. Also, how do the Whisperers at this point in the game not know to just shut up and not say dumb things to Beta? I was also sad to see the mask get tore. I think Gamma could have added a lot more to the show, but they already have an abundance of characters that they aren’t always able to concentrate on, so I get it, but I think I may miss Mary.
3. We had the “Where’s Judith” moment this week. Instead of Ezekiel saving the kids, it ended up being Earl. Earl saved the kids but got bit. Did Earl really think that he could kill himself with that spike through the table? Was this the best way to send Earl out on a high note?
Bob: He truly tried to do the brave thing. I thought about it and thought there is no way I could do that. Tactically though, it may have been easier to run outta there and remove yourself from the situation and even draw Walkers far, far away. Incidentally, before TWD was on TV, do you remember ordering pizza under the name Walker? (I couldn’t have accomplished it. Trying to bring walkers with him was the strategic play. I get the feeling that you aren’t thinking clearly after the bite. Aside from panic, I think the bite starts to cloud your thought process in ways that they have tried showing through the years. And yes, I recall ordering under the name Walker, and I can explain it to you via text. Not everybody needs to know everything on this blog.)
Raylene: Earl was trying to avoid panic in the kids and perhaps not leaving the responsibility of his killing to Judith which ended up happening. I’m sure it was his only thing he thought that would be quick and he could do himself. (Yeah, it was a noble idea. I’m simply not sure if anybody could accomplish that feat, although probably some master of martial arts could.)
Kent: Earl was desperate and didn’t want to risk biting the kids. I think the best move would be to just run away from the kids at that point. I just don’t think that you can get that spike through your head the manner that he was attempting to. I really loved Earl and this was as good of a death as he could have hoped for, in my opinion. He went out as a hero and gave Judith some baggage.
4. Negan captured Lydia and tied her up. Then he told Alpha that he had her, but it was all just a trap. First of all, did they make it too obvious that Lydia wasn’t in that shack? Secondly, do you think that Negan would have killed Alpha had she said the right thing? Thirdly, did Negan really start to like Alpha or was it all just an act?
Bob: He appreciated her but some of the wife comments…. You could just feel it from Negan. It had to be a different place where Lydia was, it was very apparent. I truly doubt there was any other fate. (This is one of those great alternate scenarios that I would love to know how it would have played out.)
Raylene: The door seemed to be a give away to me in the shed. Yes, I think Negan would’ve not killed Alpha if she let Lydia just go on living her life. I think he saw something in Alpha that struck at his heart. (The door really gave it away more than the Red Hot Chili Peppers ever could have.)
Kent: Maybe it’s because I have been watching a lot of Friday the 13th lately, but I can tell the differences in shacks and cabins. I get what they were trying, but it wasn’t all that necessary. Negan had to make sure that Lydia didn’t ruin his plan. I think that Negan would have held off on killing her and tried to coerce her in a different direction, but I am really not sure. My belief is that Negan really did like Alpha in a twisted way, and explaining Lucille helped make that a little more clear, which is why I think that he would have given her more time.
5. In your opinion, which side has lost more since the heads on a spike scene from last season? The Whisperers have lost Alpha, Gamma, Negan in some capacity, Dante, never got Lydia back, the prisoner that Carol took in, and has lost countless guardians. The other side has lost Hilltop presumably, Laura, Earl, Gamma, and Siddiq.
Bob: With Alpha’s death, the Whisperers have lost the most as they have lost their leader. Both sides lost a lot but your leader defines your vision and mission. That isn’t Beta’s forte but I am willing to be proven wrong. (I am truly curious to see if they shed light on his leadership skills, or if it will just be “I’m pissed off because they killed Alpha, so let’s kill them! Also, am I still Beta or am I Alpha now?”)
Raylene: Whisperers have definitely lost more in this war. (Definitely???)
Kent: I must answer this a bit analytically. I don’t know how big of a loss Negan, Dante, and prisoner was. I assume that Dante wasn’t healing wounded Whisperers, they simply got sacrificed, and so I feel like what he could accomplish was fulfilled. Losing Negan’s tactical mind is a loss, but he may never have been “on their side” so to speak. Lydia wasn’t a huge loss because Alpha stayed the path by and large. So the big losses for the Whisperers were mainly Alpha, Gamma, and a lot of guardians.
Losing Hilltop was a monumental loss because that leaves Alexandria and Oceanside as the last 2 communities standing and nobody cares about Oceanside. Hilltop was well protected and was great for many reasons. Earl was also a huge loss because of his knowledge and ability to craft weapons and armor. Alden can try to take over, but he’s going to need more help and lacks the full knowledge. Siddiq was a doctor, so yeah, that’s a pretty big loss. We won’t ever fully know what Laura brought to the table, but she became a trusted leader in Alexandria with plenty of experience in the group and with the Saviors. Still, I’d say that her loss is minimal.
That leaves Gamma as a big loss for both groups. She gave away lots of knowledge to the enemy and that was a big loss for both sides, and now that she is dead, I feel like her loss is canceled out for this particular exercise.
I can argue that Earl’s loss and the loss of the guardians practically cancel each other out as they both served similar purposes. Does Alpha’s loss outweigh Hilltop and Siddiq? I can argue either way, but I think Alpha’s loss is bigger. I think that the Whisperers responded far better to Alpha’s mind tricks than Beta’s methods. She was the Alpha for a reason.
6. Which death this week made the biggest impact on you as a fan?
Bob: Gamma, but only because it was very well done and her story is redemptive in nature.
Raylene: Alpha had the biggest impact on me I truly enjoyed The Whisperers I feel they will ultimately fall apart now that she is gone. Beta will try but he is not methodical like Alpha was.
Kent: This is such a tough question for me. I can say that my answer isn’t Mary because I simply preferred the other 2 characters more although they did a great job with Mary. I really, really liked Earl. In the previous episode, he gave a great speech and this week he saved the kids. Still, nothing he did tops Alpha sneaking into the big fair at the Kingdom in disguise. I gotta go with Alpha here.
7. Is Connie in a bad enough situation where she can feasibly be killed off by season’s end? Do you find yourself disliking Yumiko or Magna?
Bob: I haven’t ever liked Yumiko or Magna but I increasingly dislike them. I don’t want to see Connie die and I don’t think we will see that this season. (My patience is truly wearing thin with Magna, but she was listening to Beta sing on the record in that one episode, so I am slightly less annoyed with her, but the show needs to give them something to do that will redeem them in the fan’s eyes, and fast.)
Raylene: I don’t truly enjoy Magna or Yukimo (Who?). I am a fan of Connie, Kelly, and Luke. I believe Connie will somehow find Eugene and go with him to meet Stephanie. (Ohhhh, a Connie and Eugene pairing would be delightful. Oh wait, I already wrote that as part of my response to the next question. Quit trying to steal my thunder.)
Kent: I doubt that we will discover anything about Connie in this upcoming episode, and I don’t imagine that we see her until either episode 15 or 16. I think 16. I also think that she’s going to be killed by Beta in front of Daryl. She’s the new Beth. I am getting to a point of seriously disliking Yumiko’s character. I still like Magna, for now.
8. Did you enjoy Eugene and Carol sharing screen time together or did it feel awkward? Is Eugene really going to West Virginia by himself?
Bob: Upon seeing the scene I realized these two have never truly interacted. I really liked how Carol simply told Eugene to just go to her, duh. She made it plain and obvious. (Isn’t Carol at her best when she is plain, simple, and on point? Nobody enjoys whiny Carol. Unassuming Carol is great too, when utilized just right.)
Raylene: I did enjoy the interaction Eugene definitely can relate to angering everyone. Again I didn’t read the questions No Eugene will not be alone. (You had an opportunity to mention Abe and you didn’t take it. I am shocked.)
Kent: I get what they were doing with it, but it didn’t click and I think it was mostly because of the Magna and Yumiko nonsense intertwining with it. Had Eugene and Carol simply had a scene to themselves, I feel it would have worked better. Someone has to join Eugene, right? Rosita seems obvious, but is she going on an adventure while leaving Coco and Gabe? I can see Magna and Yumiko joining Eugene or maybe Luke. I would love more of Luke and Eugene’s conversations. This also would have been a good spot for Laura. Maybe Eugene finds Connie along the way. I’m trying to think of characters that don’t HAVE to be at the war in Alexandria. Maggie is also a big possibility. But no, I don’t think he goes alone.
Final Thoughts – Next week appears to be a Michonne-centric episode, with a special appearance by Lucille. More importantly, Negan gave Alpha’s head to Carol. Is it your belief that Carol let Negan out originally? If so, did Carol not have faith that Negan would help her?
Bob: Yay, Michonne centered episode. My jaw dropped with the Negan-Carol ending. It made the whole episode worth it. It would seem that Carol let Negan out and that was the deal, but I feel like there should be more because Negan went through a lot. (If this was the first 4 or 5 seasons, I feel like they would open an episode showing the flashback between Negan and Carol’s agreement and her freeing him. We don’t get those flashbacks much anymore, but this would be a great time for it.)
Raylene: I’d be fine without Michonne ever. I didn’t expect Carol to be the one who released him. I think that due to her need for vengeance she had no patience to wait for Negan. (In some ways, they have long illustrated that Carol exhibits early amounts of patience before letting loose, so I guess it makes a bit of sense.)
Kent: I did suggest that exact thing when it happened. “Kent: Carol would have been a fun story.” It made a world of sense to me then and more so now. I did think that they had implied it was Brandon in the preview, so that is why the answer had a wave of uncertainty. The issue I have is that Carol must have had some faith in Negan to come through, or else she wouldn’t have freed him, right? Yet, she got antsy and hellbent on destruction and led many people into certain death in a cave. So I feel confused by all of this. I wish that they didn’t do the cave scenario because then this would have made more sense.