We got a more character and story driven episode, thankfully, and it didn’t disappoint. They really added layers and dimensions to Ezekiel and Jerry. I’m back with my Mean Street Posse who answer my inane questions. As always, any comments in bold are done by Kent. Please enjoy, and share this with friends on social media in memory of Shiva.
Intro
- I know some of you are especially emotional, so let’s just get it out of the way. Really, what was Jerry thinking when he was trying to break the chain or lock with his battleaxe and as a consequence, breaking it?
Briana: Right? What was he thinking? Wood against chains? I think he just panicked and did the only thing he could do to try getting the gate open! (I can’t recall any video game where wood beat chains, and Jerry strikes me as a gamer pre ZA.)
Bob: Perfect. The hinges may have been weaker. This was one of many scenes where walkers were right on top of them with a ton of dialogue. (I very much appreciate that you bring up the dialogue aspect. It’s pretty damn funny when they do this sort of silliness. It makes me chuckle.)
Bitty: Jerry!!! Noooooooo! He wasn’t thinking about anything other than the King. He was in a moment of do or die. (Yeah, I think his hair did the talking there. You could tell that his head wasn’t fully in the game.)
Brian: he knew his trusty weapon would not let him down and had to save the king.(You gotta save the King or else it’s all for nothing.)
Kristi: He was just trying to get out of there and that was the idea that hatched in his mind. It wasn’t really a sit down to make a solid plan kinda moment. (I read this and laughed because I pictured Ezekiel and Jerry pulling a Zack Morris and pausing the action and sitting down drawing up a plan to stay alive. I think of weird things.)
Chris: That axe was the glue that held the group together……. I don’t even…….. (Brilliant answer that made me legit laugh. Thank you for that.)
Raylene: I believe he was trying to break the chains perhaps figuring it would be easier than breaking the lock. There was really no place for them to go unless Jerry just tossed the king over the fence like a hoss. (Bonus points for saying Hoss, and I would have also enjoyed them showing Jerry toss a dummy of Ezekiel like they used to do in Married With Children.)
Eric: all he was thinking about was saving the king. Weapons come and go in this world. Daryl lost his crossbow numerous times through the series. (This made me wonder, how many crossbows has Daryl gone through and does he keep a supply of arrows at Alexandria?)
Kent: Let’s face it, some of us are better/worse than others in a panic situation. It was clearly a panic situation and it doesn’t strike me that Jerry has been in many situations like this. Now, I am tossing this idea out there, but with Jerry’s strength and and the battleaxe, I kinda thought the better moe was to go for the chain link fencing. It’s been awhile in the ZA, so it seems plausible that he could have hossed his way through the fence that way, or at least had a better chance than the lock and chain attempt. With that being said, I can’t make fun because I panic in stupid video games, so I’d be awful in the ZA.
- A lot of us knew that Shiva would meet her demise this season for a variety of reasons. Was this the right time and the right purpose?
Briana: Is there such thing as a right time or reason for that awfulness? It was horrific and had me more upset than most people who got got on this show!! (Yes that was a shout out to your usual verbiage! Lol) But to more directly answer your question, it was as good a time and reason as any other. Ezekiel saved her life and she repaid him. The sounds though man! (What is this emotion that I am feeling? Joy? Pride? I’m just so happy to see you use the got got that you get a gold star.)
Bob: I was just laughing… The show set up sooo many moments where the tiger would rush to the rescue. It was appropriate to kill the tiger BUT I really have a hard time thinking a cornered tiger that weighs 500 lbs could not have just run through or quickly rip apart the walkers. If there is a belief that the tiger died on purpose, stop it now. (If you read my answer, you will see how much I agreed with your assessment. I think of Tyrese taking out like 50 walkers surrounding the car, but this tiger couldn’t handle 8 of them. Please!)
Bitty: Ezekiel saved her, she saved him. Poetic and amazing. I think I was more upset with her death than many characters we’ve lost. What would happen if she got bit but ran away? Would she have turned? (I will not focus on the Disney aspect of your comment, but the question of animals getting bit is something that I don’t think they have yet to really answer. I can’t recall an instance in the comic where it happened. Yeah, you opened Pandora’s Box here. If we think about animalistic nature, it’s to hunt and eat and feed basically, that and to mate. While we have yet to see walkers attempting to mate, we see that their main goal is to feed. Jenner talked about this in the season 1 finale. So how would we know when an animal had “turned”? The usual thing would be to spread the virus, but everybody already has it, except Little Ass Kicker. I wonder, what would be the tell tale signs of say a cat who turned. Would it be meaner like Church was after coming back from being buried in Pet Sematary? Would it walk like it had 15 shots of booze, or would it have a different breathing sound or meow? Yeah, you did not expect me to go this in depth, but these are things I have pondered. Good question. Anybody who is reading this, I’d love to hear your insight, maybe via comment on social media or on the blog post itself.)
Brian: Right time and place. Another false idol getting his due for being a murderous leader. If the king had stayed with the saviors and not joined rick’s coup then him and his subjects would still be alive. (Now I know that some of you don’t agree with Brian’s assessment, but there is something to be said for this theory. I ask later on about whether the Kingdom should have gotten involved. Would The Saviors have kept collecting and basically let the Kingdom live in peace had they just stayed in their lane? I think this is a fine point.)
Kristi: I am very unhappy about this but I think it happened at a good time. He needed Shiva at that moment and although, this is one death that will impact him, I think he needed to be thrown into the reality of what is happening. (I was afraid to message you after this episode.)
Chris: I think it needed to happen to break the king. He’s going to go through his depressed stage now, only for Carol to show him the light. (Isn’t it interesting how Carol really is like the voice of reason, and has been for most of the series. Not the morale compass, but really a voice of reason. After T Dog sacrificed himself for her, I think that was her moment, and I know the Sophia thing also contributed, but the T Dog incident made her go in a closet alone with just her thoughts and since then, she’s been different. Like, she wasn’t wrong in burning the bodies at the prison. She did the right (unpopular) thing.)
Raylene: Yes this seemed to be a fitting way for her to go out saving her handler as he did for her prior to the outbreak. (You’ve known this was coming because I don’t ever not spoil stuff from the comics, but this felt right at least.)
Eric: I would have liked to see Shiva last longer in the series. I think it would have been a good “symbol” for the group. She died saving her master. (I would have liked to see her last longer, but I do believe that it was just as much a budget thing as it was narrative driven. Let’s face it, the show is making cash, but they have so many people to pay. The 100 plus actors, the walkers, all the make up and special effects people, the cost for locking down these places, the cost of having Shiva in more was probably prohibitive.)
Kent: I’m really glad that Bob brought up 2 points that I was going to make. I mean it’s like Thanksgiving with John Goodman, Bob is not leaving me much meat here, haha. We have been told time and time again how the walkers continue to get weaker and weaker, that’s how Rick can kill a whole field on his own without a bite or scratch. Sooooo big bad ass tiger that wouldn’t have an issue taking strong people out is going to get taken out like that? I’m not buying that, and I know that I am supposed to be a good Lil Jimmy and just be happy and play along, but this was silly. The narrative that they tried making this poetic, I get it, and it pulls at the heart strings, as you have read, but this was like some Disney shit, or fast traveling dragons swooping in to save a great group of guys. Are TWD and GoT competing for some silliness award?
- This question is brought to you via Brian. Jerry loses his battle axe and the king loses his tiger. Will the loss of their iconic weapons cause them to fall out of character?
Briana: Yes I believe it is sort of an homage to how things will be different for them moving forward. I’m not sure about Jerry, but for Ezekiel, he was already falling out of character before she died. And that will be the last straw for him. He believes now that he’s just a guy who happened to find a tiger and now he has no tiger. (Do you think it will take Ezekiel time to be that public face that he was or will he begrudgingly play the role and just not be very public?)
Bob: The King has his hair. Jerry should wield a sledgehammer next, an upgraded Tyrese character. (I love all 3 aspects of your response, the hair, sledgehammer, and Tyrese. Gold star!)
Bitty: I believe that Jerry will continue his role in the kingdom. If anything the weakening of Ezekiel will make Jerry even more important to him. (Very good point in regards to Jerry being forced to up his game.)
Brian: The king has lost the reason he became the king. He will be torn apart. (One might theorize that a part of him does get torn from him. I can’t say anything beyond that.)
Kristi: Jerry, no. I think Ezekiel will be at a loss but he will rise back up and be stronger because of it. (Yeah, he will rise up again. I am curious, like I asked with Bri, wondering if he will stay in his room for awhile, or go out and try to put on his persona.)
Chris: I doubt Jerry will become less awesome, but losing Shiva will be devastating to Ezekiel. He’s going to believe he is nothing without her. (Yeah, the moment Jerry becomes less awesome, probably the show gets cancelled.)
Raylene: I think for a while the king will lose his way but then the sweet loving of Carol will bring him back and Jerry will remain as he has been. (Will we get a Carol and Ezekiel sexy scene? I would applaud this.)
Eric: Daryl was always Daryl even without his crossbow. The king will still be the king even without his tiger. and jerry can always find another axe. (Eric, that was borderline poetic. Kudos. You’re right, Daryl was Daryl. If you’ve made it this far in the ZA, I feel that your time for mourning is cut by 98% or what we would go through. Great point.)
Kent: I would say that Jerry basically becomes Ezekiel’s next weapon….although if a sledgehammer happened to end up in Jerry’s hands, HHH would approve, and he is the King of Kings. So from one king to another, you cannot go wrong with this weapon. Plus it is much less likely to get stuck like machetes tend to. I think the characters evolve to half assedly answer Brian’s question.
- Did you find the opening scene more inspirational or depressing? Please only consider the opening scene and not the whole episode and choose one or the other because yes, it’s both. See how bland that answer is?
Briana: this is a tough one but I’ll have to say depressing! Even if I didn’t know how it ended for them and only saw that scene without anything else. Loved ones leaving to fight a war is depressing regardless of the outcome. (Yeah, the leaving for war thing, I gotta say, the way they filmed this whole opening was incredibly effective in my opinion.)
Bob: Since I have to pick one of those, depressing. It seemed to be a grim and accurate portrayal of the results of war. Ezekiel being in quasi-shock – well Ezekiel got what he deserved for saying we will not lose one of our ranks. (Excellent point about the war aspect. It’s odd to think of somebody from the theater being so outlandish to make such a stupid proclamation. Then I think back to our time doing theater and remember a handful of jacmos that would be that foolish.)
Bitty: It was depressing. Also ummmm electricity? (This isn’t the Stranger Things blog. Although, man a TWD universe with an Upside Down would be fascinating, at least for an episode.)
Brian: its always best to dress well and kiss your loved ones goodbye before you leave to murdert innocents. (Don’t mind me, I’m just over here nodding with a smirk on my face.)
Kristi: Depressing. With the history of the show, I think we all know after a speech like that a certain demise is sure to follow. (It’s like Jax Teller giving a rousing speech before they got to take out the Mayans or Niners, you know if it’s a big speech, somebody is dying.)
Chris: Just depressing. Ezekiel was not prepared for the idea of losing his people, and to lose so many in such a quick fashion set the tone for his breakdown at the end. (Yeah, theater people are not very good kings or generals. I once played the role of a king. I was terrible at it.)
Raylene: To me it was depressing the king was not ready for the way the Saviors fight and other than the two men and kid we see at the gate in the end is the majority of the kingdom left just women? (Yeah, it’s probably similar to the crop of people that Rick’s group brought to the prison from Woodbury. That’s my guess. Also, let’s not forget Nabila, who is a crowd favorite.)
Eric: it was inspiring to see the king rally his people to battle. Like he knew it wouldn’t end well. (If I put myself in the mindset of being a member of the Kingdom, that’s the exact kind of speech I would like to hear before marching off to my impending doom. That’s what I took away from it.)
Kent: Huh, I gotta be honest, I really expected more people to say inspiring rather than depressing. Thanks everybody, except for Eric, for making me incorrect. To me, that speech that he gave, I absolutely loved it. Looking back on this show, it may end up one of my favorite speeches, probably top 3. The Governor raiding the prison is also obviously up there.
- Now that we have had an opportunity to meet Gunther and see his demise, do you wish that he maybe had a bigger role prior? Gunther is the Savior who took Ezekiel and stole his blade.
Briana: Eww no! He was a Pervy looking weirdo and I’ve had enough of the psycho saviors at this point! Lol! There are enough solid characters who have the bad guy, creeper dude thing going for him. Not that he was bad for that part, I just don’t know how much of him I could have handled other than that. (Pervy looking weirdo? Check. Creeper? Check. He’s just living the ZA dream.)
Bob: Seriously? What could be a bigger role than being halved by Jerry? (Your answer made me stop in my tracks and reflect on that. You’re not wrong. I think it’s one of the most iconic kills of the show.)
Bitty: I’m sorry I just couldn’t get the image of Napoleon Dynamite out of my head. (Interestingly enough, well you can scroll down and see that you aren’t alone. I prefer the Dahmer reference, but to each their own.)
http://fanfest.com/2017/11/13/the-walking-dead-can-we-talk-about-gunther-the-savior-real-quick/
Brian: no Gunther could have been anyone. The true believers know that together they will survive. They are all negan and that way they use his strength and toughness. To survive. (But could he have been Dahmer’s son? That’s my big question.)
Kristi: I didn’t care for him at all. I’m good with the amount of screen time he received. Less would have been prefered actually. (I kinda thought that you would dig him. He reminded me of somebody that would have been in Devil’s Rejects.)
Chris: He was the last person to die via Jerry’s battle axe! He must have placed a curse on it (Is it safe to say the first and last? Jerry doesn’t strike me as a dude who has killed any living person prior. The curse is real. Hopefully next year during the season, do something like they are with the 30 second videos on the red handled machete, maybe we could get the history of the battleaxe.)
Raylene: I would have like a longer role for him perhaps seeing if he really was mind f****king Ezekiel. (You have spent too much time with me if you enjoyed him. Good for you.)
Eric: little peon fuck. I wanted to watch him die from the first time I saw him (Well, I don’t know if we will get a more aggressive response in this blog, so there is that.)
Kent: Man, i rather liked this guy and thought he did a dynamite job. Judging from the responses, it seems like he did a good job, but people are sick of that character archetype. To nobody’s surprise, I really enjoyed him. Please get him for the next Rob Zombie film, as I think he would do a great job.
- Should Carol have let the 2 guys get away with the guns and save Jerry and Ezekiel or focus on the task at hand?
Briana: She did the right thing. You save the people you know you can save instead of hoping to try to save people you still might not save and then still get the other people killed. That didn’t make sense did it? (It makes perfect sense the 7th time you read it.) Lol! If she’d kept fighting with those guys, she may have very easily just ran out of bullets and still accomplished nothing is what I’m getting at here. (Yeah, it could have just turned into a pissing contest.)
Bob: If I were those guys, I would have shot Carol when she ran away to save Ezekiel. Then I would have had Ezekiel for Negan. That only happened to bring Rick and Daryl into the episode. The Humvee chase was a very good scene. (Yeah, I don’t know why they didn’t at least take a shot at Carol. It baffled me.)
Bitty: Should Carol have saved the guns? Hell yes. Two seasons ago Carol would have. Last season Carol would’ve hid and this Season’s Carol has found a balance between being a bad ass and a person with feelings again. (I like where you’re going with this. To add to it, in this scenario, guns equals lives to a degree. We all love Ezekiel and Jerry, but one could easily make an argument that her acquiring those guns and keeping them from Negan could very well save 30 lives. It’s something to think about. Or not, I don’t know. I’m tired. Now I kinda want to switch my answer. I won’t, but I kinda want to.)
Brian: Carol knew that the other murderous duo was waiting to finish what she could not. (DId she definitely know? I was questioning it. Like she knew after the fact, but did she know in the moment? Like the plan didn’t go off without a hitch, so they didn’t have everything exactly timed, there was no official time table, I can’t imagine. It felt like lazy writing that Rick and Daryl conveniently got out of trouble in time to chase down these guys.)
Kristi: I don’t think she really had a choice. Saving Ezekiel was the right thing to do. The Kingdom needs their King and it would have haunted Carol had she let him die. She did the right thing. (You say that it would have haunted her, and I agree with that. Do you think that she needed to do it in some regard to her own mental health? Like she can’t allow somebody to die on her watch if she can do anything about it. I hadn’t considered it, but that’s a solid idea.)
Chris: If she doesn’t save Ezekiel then the kingdom has no leader and will be no help in the war. She made the right choice. However, I agree with other comments that she could have shot the tires out. (So while I agree with you about the tires, I then thought, if she did that, would she have definitely forced their hand to shoot and try to kill her? Then I talked to myself in circles.)
Raylene: Perhaps she could’ve shot the tires out on the vehicles and then saved Jerry and Ezekiel. (Okay, another person for shooting tires out. Note what I said to Chris.)
Eric: in the end, they got the guns. But the writers seem to be taking liberties with the fact that Rick will save the day. (Yeah, just a smidgen with the liberties. I call BS that they timed it that way, but it helps move the narrative along. The logic is very flawed though.)
Kent: I’m still shocked that those guys didn’t at the very least shoot more at her, despite the ammo situation. As you know, I pick and choose odd things to dwell on, this was one. Logically, they had a chance at the king, and even if they knew that, it seemed odd that they took a chance that she wasn’t going to kill them boys. Of course it’s the “right choice” because it played out positively for our group. In a real life predicament, I felt that she was a tad careless. Once again, I am supposed to suspend my disbelief, so I apologize.
- While this episode certainly humanized Ezekiel significantly, gave us additional perspective, did it make him a better or worse leader, in your eyes? Also, and this per Brian, with the King being down at the moment, will other characters maintain their role playing within the Kingdom?
Briana: If Ezekiel really lets himself go in this ocean of depression he’s on the edge of, they’re screwed. But I think he will pull himself out! He loves his people and they will show him they still need him and he will do it for them whether he thinks he can or not. (I am hoping that Nabila helps him. She is the chick that we saw last season, and she was super sweet. I hope she gets more shine this season.)
Bob: Ezekiel needs to live by the Fake it till you Make it mantra. He can be down but as a leader he has to resurge and not feel self pity. And not make silly promises like no one will die in war. Yes, I am not done with this dead horse. (Good, keep up the good work on beating the dead horse. I get stuck on certain things and can’t let go, like Daryl and Carol in the ambulance or Glenn and the dumpster, or Rick running through walkers with a scratch or bite.)
Bitty: “Fake it till you make it baby” He’s by far the guy I’d like to hang out with during the apocalypse. (I think that would make for a wonderful question some week when I don’t have enough topics. Hint….hint.)
Brian: I think that now the facade is crumbling and they are not going to make it so stop faking it. His ego has led his cult followers to certain death. (The word facade doesn’t get used enough in this blog and really for this show, facade should be used way more often.)
Kristi: After all is said and done, I think it made him a stronger leader. I liked that he told Jerry he was no King and that he was willing to stay back since he was slowing them down. I think it will make him stronger. It will knock some sense into him that they are not untouchable and have a better grip on reality. I think the people in the kingdom need him as their leader so I don’t think anything will change as far as that goes. (Yeah, if you read my answer, I’m of the same thought. Losses create opportunities to learn and better yourself.)
Chris: I think, in the end, this will make him a better leader. Having to deal with loss will make him stronger. I think the role playing has to continue to keep morale up. (Imagine if they just stopped with the role playing and then out comes Jerry and like he didn’t get the memo. That would be a funny scene at the very least.)
Raylene: I think it just showed him as an inexperienced fighting leader . He did have the best of intentions for his people. Yes people will try to keep their life as normal as possible. (Best intentions, sure. I am surprised that he didn’t have any solid advisors, aside from Carol and the ghosts of Benjamin and Richard.)
Eric: he is the king for a reason. he plays the part and people follow him. other character might “ step up” but he will always be the king (That’s the thing. You can fool so many people that you are something that you are not, which I guess is the fake it til you make it, but it kinda goes deeper than that. Yes, he’s made it, but more importantly, he did so good that people have legit bought into it.)
Kent: I just hit myself in the face with a pillow accidentally and wished to share that knowledge with you. I’m going to compare this a bit to a famous person, and it’s sports related, and I apologize, but the analogy should work. Michael Jordan wasn’t always the greatest. WHat made him great is that he had the natural progression of fighting to make the playoffs, then fighting, in some cases literally fighting to get past the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons who had their own “Jordan Rules” for ways to play MJ. So he failed, it took like 5 seasons before he won his first championship. He was cocky and he is the single most competitive person alive. But losing definitely builds character. Think about school, if you got just one question wrong, if you cared, you looked at what you did wrong and you attempted to learn from that mistake which makes you stronger. To answer Brian’s question, I think the role playing must continue because it is incredibly effective in maintaining order.
- A third or half of the Kingdom has been wiped out. In hindsight, should they have gotten involved in this war?
Briana: I still think it was necessary. Without them, they had no chance. And it seems like the plan is working. It’s war. Independence is never gained without casualty. They will rebuild and persevere. (Great line about the independence. I mean, it’s not Bill Pullman great, but it’s very good. I just wanted an opportunity to mention Bill Pullman.)
Bob: Yes. Of course – while they had weapons and confidence. (I think weapons and confidence, especially in this scenario, are equally important, so great point.)
Bitty: Yes. They needed to be involved. They need to survive. If anything they were the most prepared. (I don’t know, those Oceansiders were really well prepared.)
Brian: no they were surviving and even thriving before they were brainwashed by rick and his plot to hide his past. (If anybody expected a different answer from Brian, you haven’t been paying any attention.)
Kristi: Yes. They need to come together and defeat Negan. They should have planned better and had his speech been more realistic, they may have been better prepared though. (I loved the speech, but how many people just went in thinking that they were gonna run this town tonight? How many realists were involved?)
Chris: Of course. Being under Negan’s rule, it was only a matter of time before people died. (That’s something that hasn’t really been tackled well in this show. How much does Negan value the people under him in The Saviors and the groups that work for him? I wish they would delve deeper into his psychology. You can’t just kill all of your suppliers, I mean The Governor would have, but I feel that Negan is smarter than that.(
Raylene: Yes because they would have still been under Negan’s rule (Is that such a bad thing?)
Eric: the numbers were needed. They chose to fight the saviors. it’s better to die on your feet than live on your knees. (Seriously dude, you are coming out with some lines this week. Keep this up.)
Kent: Man, my questions suck this week because everybody is just in unison agreement. When thinking about this, I had to determine what I felt The Kingdom’s main objective was. Is it survival or to grow and rebuild. While I believe it should be to survive, I feel that their objective is to grow so joining this war was the only option. Damnit, I’m agreeing with people. Booooooo.
- At no point do you ever really fear for Rick or Daryl’s life and it makes certain scenes a tad silly due to lack of suspense. Should the writers consider pulling a Game of Thrones and killing one of them to truly prove that anybody can die at any time on the show or is it too late in the show for that?
Briana: No. I think what you’re saying makes sense and it would fulfill the storyline more realistically but it’s a show and those are our dudes, man! It’s definitely too late to pull that stunt! (It is too late in the show to do it. Nobody else is big enough to have the impact, but you can’t kill either.)
Bob: That is a jump the shark move if I have ever heard one. Ted McGinley. (Thank you for referencing Ted McGinley.)
Bitty: If either Rick or Daryl die it has to be epic. I don’t think they’ll do it but that would be the only way it’d be acceptable. (They can do it in the final season no problem, but by then, it will have an entirely different meaning. On the plus side, a cleansing is coming next year. There are going to be some sad people in this group.)
Brian: yes but it needs to be believable deaths. Darryl needs to OD or Rick needs to do the right thing and realize that he should end his own life to save the rest of the people that follow him before his selfish ways kill them all. Perfect ending Darryl ods and as rick tries to revive him walker Darryl eats him. (I wish Daryl still had some of Merle’s pills for when he had The Clap. On a related note, ACDC’s song “The Jack” is actually about how he got The Clap, but in Australia, they can refer to it as the Jack.)
Kristi: Yes! It would definitely add suspense to it and give other characters the chance to really shine.(I know that you and I watch a lot of the same shows, so it makes sense for you to be on my side for this one. Nothing will ever hit me as hard as Opie’s death in Sons.)
Chris: I think it would be an amazing idea to kill one of them off. If not one of them, someone really important (Carl/Michener/Maggie.). Rick or Daryl dying would be a legit shock. (I hope you don’t get mad at me for not correcting the typo, but I love how Michonne turned to Michener. I giggled. I still think Maggie would be a huge swerve. If they kill Carl, I am not sure if I would be as loyal of a fan. He’s my favorite character along with Carol. Carol I accept because I have zero expectations moving forward because she has long been dead in the comics, and was awful in the comics. Carl’s character continues to improve in the comics, so I’d hate to see his demise.)
Raylene: That would definitely spice this show up if they kill one of them. (And replace them with Sean Bean.)
Eric: at this point the ratings would tank if Daryl or Rick were killed off. (Yeah, I think that decision now would be the death knell for the show. Had they done in Daryl in season 4 or 5, I think they could have survived it. I don’t think the show could ever survive without Rick. It’d be like that 70’s Show when Eric (Topher Grace) left the show. He was the main component.)
Kent: They are in a damned if they do and damned if they don’t point. I love this show, but I still talk to people who don’t like it or critique it because I still think that perspective is important. It appears to me that one of, if not the biggest complaint is that it is very formulaic and that there are characters that are put in dangerous situations but there’s no suspense because nobody believes that a Rick, Daryl, or Maggie can die. That whole thing worked for Breaking Bad because it was about one main character. And they made it only 5 seasons long. It’s too late to make a positive impact as far as the viewing experience. Still, this is a big reason why Game of Thrones holds more suspense because there are point where you think that Jaime, Tyrion, or even Dany flying on her dragon could get got. That makes that show far more compelling. Also, I want to really say that formulaic is a good term to describe TWD. This season Ezekiel will be depressed and moody, last year it was Daryl, and the season before it was Carol, and so on. There seems to the topic of humanity and where the line is for “too much” as far as defending yourself or group. They are good themes, and completely justifiable given the context, but it does happen a lot, so the nay sayers aren’t wrong. Millennials may refer to them as haters. Don’t be that person.
Bonus Deuce
- It appears that we will get to see Eugene next week, but still no Carl. How many more episodes before he makes an appearance and what do you think he will be doing? Have fun with this one people.
Briana: Wow! I honestly forgot about him. How is that even possible? I can’t even remember where he is. He’s back at Alexandria right? (Yes, he should be at least since he’s in charge.) So he’s definitely going to have been prepping for a potential backlash if the troops fail! He’s also dropped Judith on her head and now she’s got a lazy eye! (I think it’s funny how many things and theories I have read about Judith. I have never seen a child character so mistreated by the fans in hilarious ways. She’s doing better than she did in the comics, that’s fo sho.)
Bob: Carl will have made new friends. Much needed friends. We will see him mid-season finale or the finale. (Huh, like dude friends that say Bro way too often, or has he forged an alliance. I need details.)
Bitty: Carl will have strengthened Alexandria. He will have created a system of order and a new reign of warriors. Or he’ll have knocked up Enid. I mean come on now, what’s one more baby in the apocalypse that we’ll never hear from. (Babies aren’t a bother at all in the ZA. Really, the only trouble that Judith caused was when Glenn and Maggie went to get baby formula and Merle captured them.)
Brian: Arl will be at home going through puberty imagining things about his soon to be stepmom. (This is a very realistic thing that people probably cringe at, but it’s totally true.)
Kristi: In the following week. He will be kicking it with his friends, helping them learn to fight. (I seriously hope that he’s made friends. He needs to. I would love to see a Morgan and Carl buddy episode.)
Chris: Wait , that wasn’t Carl riding around with Daryl????? I just assumed he had another growth spurt…. (I laughed and thought that this was brilliant.)
Raylene: Two episodes and he’ll have gone to hillside and gotten Enid pregnant (Man, you girls want Carl to put it to Enid. That’s weird.)
Kent: I love that multiple people thought that he would naturally knock up Enid. I honestly think that Enid may die, but that’s just a theory. I imagine that he is still teaching himself how to drive, maybe do some doughnuts. I also hope that he is training Kent to be a bigger bad ass, providing that Kent is still alive. Also, if he sent out a crew to find Heath, I would be happy.
- Last week I should have asked this, but I will ask it now. If you take all characters, both past and present, what would be your dream one on one fight? Bonus points if you choose 2 characters that were alive and relevant at the same time on the show.
Briana: I don’t get the bonus points but I’m going with it anyway bc it would be awesome! Andrea vs Tara! (No, you get bonus points. You are the only person that killed off Tara. That’s worth or 5 gold stars!)
Bob: Shane v. Negan (Thought about it, loved it, I think Shane wins. Negan was, well I don’t want to ruin what Negan was prior to the ZA, but he didn’t have the background that Shane did. I will say this, Negan has an extra gear when it comes to fighting, so this would be fun.)
Bitty: Sofia v Carl. If Sofia had lived this long would she be Carl’s equal? (This was a really great one. So we are assuming that Carol still has learned a lot of shit, except she is also still in mother mode. She will have taught and trained Sophia. I would give Carl the edge because that boy has taken 2 gunshots and still lived, but that would be fun.)
Brian: Hershel vs negan standing on opposite hillsides watching their army’s battle it out. Or negan and the governor one on one. (Would Herschel have both legs? If we are doing season 4 Governor, which I think was his most dangerous, and Negan, I know Negan would have the strength advantage, but Governor was faster thinking and wirey. That’s a damn fine fight. I’m going to take Governor in that one.)
Kristi: Merle and Eugene. (Eugene whoops Merle’s ass, obviously. Merle would go for overhand chop with his knife, but his blade would get stuck in the Tennessee top hat and Eugene would have the advantage.)
Chris: Eugene and Gregory!!!!! There would be so much crying. I would actually like to see Abraham and Shane throw down. (First of all, Gregory seems like the kind of guy that would just try to wear out Eugene, except Eugen would take 2 steps and realize that he’s wasting energy. It would be the worst draw ever, and hilarious. Abe and Shane was my original answer. 2 years ago, I did a bracket tournament of fights between TWD characters, selected at random. This was a match I thought a lot about. I think Shane wins unless Abe gets under his skin with all of his one liners. First to make a mistake loses situation.)
Raylene: Dale and Hershel fighting to be the moral compass of the group (Herschel has a shotgun with unlimited ammo. Dale is afraid to use a gun or to kill people who may kill him and his group. I’d still enjoy this.)
Eric: I would have liked to see Michonne and Maggie fight. I think it would make a cool fight. I also would like to see Rick really fight neegan hand to hand. (I believe Maggie to be a really good shot, but if Michonne closed the gap while Maggie was reloading, then Michonne wins. I think Michonne takes that one, of course it depends on the terrain. If Michonne has nowhere to run, or does she have her sword, does Maggie get a gun. That is a matchup that is dependant on the variables. I think Rick wins against Negan. I have Negan losing every fight suggested. I really wish I could say what he was prior to the ZA. Rick has shown me that he will be as sadistic as possible, and while that may be true of Negan, I don’t think Negan is that great of a thinker on his feet. He is more of a strategist. That’s my take.)
Kent: Tara vs Tyrese, Carl, Daryl, Merle, the Governor, Carol, Abe, T Dog, Enid, Judith, and Negan would be my dream fight. One on one though, I would have liked Rick and Governor to have had a legit one. Andrea vs Maggie would have been fun. I honestly could give you 50 match ups that I would like, but I also watch way too much wrestling. Chris actually took my original answer of Shane vs Abe. That would be something. Merle with both hands vs Abe would be something.
Final Thoughts – Just for fun, what do you think this “plan” is that Rick is hatching with Daryl now that they have those crates?
Briana: I’m digging this season but I won’t lie, 4 episodes and counting on the same day gives me a weird 24 vibe and that’s throwing me off! Ready to get back to Negan and Gabriel’s love trailer!!
Bob: It’s all about the setup and sabotaging.
Bitty: They only have 2 massive guns right? They didn’t take all the cases from the out building?? Who knows what the plan is but I’m thinking they don’t agree.
Brian: get surprised when they realize the guns were damaged during the accident.. remember the gun was setup during the firefight.. so getting crushed by a roll over truck could happen.
Raylene: Arming everyone in the three communities with weapons
Eric: they are gonna decimate the saviors with two .50 cal machine guns. They can do some serious damage.
Kent: I think the plan is to ship Aaron and Jesus….duh. I felt so awful writing that. Any plan I can think of simply amuses me. I could see them wanting to take out the Scavengers and even arm Oceanside as a sign of good faith. We’re going to see Oceanside again, so I guess we have to accept it. I do think Rick should offer Tara to be Negan’s wife so they can have a person on the inside……and then she is made an example of in the most brutal scene in AMC’s history. Please!!!!
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