This week, we get some insight as to what happened prior to Rick’s assault on Sanctuary and the aftermath with Negan and Gabriel. It really provided us with plenty of info and gave us some things to speculate upon. This week was a little rough for some of my contributors…..thanks Thanksgiving. I’m sorry, I can’t be too upset at National Fat Guy day. It’s sooo tasty. Anyway, thank you to Briana, Bob, Brian, Kristi, and Raylene for taking time out of their busy schedule to provide their valuable insight. Always feel free to leave your own thoughts in the comments section. All messages in bold are written by Kent, and I know damn well that some of you just come to read my responses to you.
Ohhhhh, also Eric and I did a podcast prior to this episode airing. It’s a really solid podcast that you can listen to and get some valuable insight……okay, well it’s 2 dudes shooting the shit and talking TWD. If you want our analysis, that’s great. We have a good time.
Are You Not Kentertained Episode #087
The 9
- Did this episode alter your viewpoint of Negan at all?
Briana: Maybe a little. It was interesting to see how grateful even the workers are for him. It also seemed obvious that without Negan, things would not last long. It really just left me with more questions than answers. (I would absolutely recommend reading the Here’s Negan story that I left a link for in my response. It would hopefully answer some of your questions. Yes, it was good to see Saviors being grateful for his ruling.)
Bob: I can understand him better now. I always knew there was a reason for him being a jerk. Everyone has adapted into the new world the way they needed to if they were able and survived. The Alexandrians aren’t so different than the Saviors. The Saviors are more advanced in their hierarchy and structure. Someone will always rise to power and that power will corrupt them. (Yeah, there’s not much difference. Let’s face it, it’s people doing whatever to survive. Things that we find unsavory or reprehensible, but we know that there would be some people like this in a ZA. As you said, power corrupts and there will be a plethora of people yearning for power in a ZA. Just human nature really.)
Brian: the man… the myth.. the legend!!!! (Just nodding and smiling.)
Kristi: Not really. I’m not sure I believe his story about his wife. He still locked Gabrielle up so that was crappy. He is still an arrogant asshat that has taken supplies and doctors from other communities that have harmed them and put them in danger. He is just not a nice guy. (His story is legit. There’s more to it, and I did include the link in my response. If you don’t feel like checking it out, I can always sum it up for you, but that is the real story.)
Raylene: It is nice to have some backstory on him and it humanizes him more to me but I can not still get behind him due to my Abe. (You should aim your anger at Glenn. His death overshadowed Abe’s and stole his thunder.)
Kent: No, not at all, but I am pro Negan to begin with. I will say that I loved the comic that gives his backstory, which we saw a glimpse of in this episode. There is more that they may or may not ever delve into, so I shall not ruin it. I felt that this was needed to add layers to the most important character of the past 3 seasons. I know that a lot of you may have some questions, or perhaps have an urge to know more, and I would suggest that they pick up the graphic novel Here’s Negan, or be a total cheap ass and read it for free.
http://www.omgbeaupeep.com/comics/Heres_Negan/
- Now that Eugene knows about Dwight, what will Eugene’s next play be, given the pressure Negan put on him?
Briana: With Eugene, I believe it will come down to whether or not he needs to use that to save his own ass. I don’t think he will want to directly be responsible for the repercussions unless it’s because Negan suspects Eugene. (I do wonder how Negan would react to Eugene outing a person that Negan trusts. Negan is gonna be stressed and may make some rash decisions in the midst of ALL OUT WAR. Given certain circumstances, will Negan relaly be looking for truth or comfort?)
Bob: Eugene is super smart, so he has some circumstantial evidence. This isn’t enough for Eugene and we know Dwighty-boy can spin a situation. Eugene will probably recommend directly to Dwight that he should flee or turn himself in before he has to. Dwight may in turn manipulate a scenario where Eugene is found culpable and bye bye Eugene. (I don’t think you are far off the mark here. Based on what the books show us, I can see a scenario play out very similar to your description.)
Brian: Eugene will do the right thing and let Negan know!! (One would hope that Eugene would do the right thing. Maybe Spike Lee can make a movie about it.)
Kristi: I still want to believe Eugene is on Rick’s side. I don’t think he will out Dwight. (I haven’t seen any evidence to indicate that Eugene isn’t still on Rick’s side, while keeping himself out of harm’s way.)
Raylene: I think he will try to help Dwight perhaps finding a scapegoat to pin it on taking the heat off of him and Dwight. (If Bob’s theory is incorrect, I think that this is the other likely scenario.)
Kent: Whatever decision is made, by whoever makes it, it will backfire on them, and I mean them in a plural form, and I will simply leave it at that.
- Did you find yourself agreeing with Rick or Daryl in their lover’s quarrel?
Briana: I’ll side with Daryl on this one. I’ve said it many times this season: this is war. They’re here to do a job. Take them out while you have the advantage and remember that they were on their way to your people to do the same. (That’s really my thought process. If I was living in Alexandria and I got a chance to vote, I would vote on Daryl’s plan in hopes of ending this ALL OUT WAR sooner rather than later.)
Bob: I agree with Daryl’s methods but with Rick’s planning. If you have a plan and it is working, stick with it. Daryl’s idea could later be implemented, but that’s what you get when two type A personalities fight it out. (As a Type B, I enjoy sitting back and watching the action, like a sloth.)
Brian: This is a tough one. Hopefully Daryl will realize Rick is only going to get him killed. (Daryl doesn’t seem like a guy that will figure it out until it’s too late, if we’re being honest here. I feel like Merle warned him of this in season 3 to an extent. Officer Friendly indeed.)
Kristi: I’m on Rick’s side. Daryl bugs me. Per the question in the last blog, I would like to see Daryl gone. (It’s still weird to me that a female is cool with Daryl getting got. I dig it.)
Raylene: I believe in Rick’s only because it saves the children, who are innocent in this war.
Kent: Well, we have 2 on Rick’s side, 2 on Daryl’s side, sorta, and 1 who just hopes that Daryl does something before Rick kills him. This is nice. I am so happy that we don’t have people agreeing. I know that eventually some folks may say “In Rick Grimes we trust” or some such nonsense. I’m going to give you a bullshit response. If I was a member of Rick’s group, I’d want them to go with Daryl’s plan. As a fan of a certain character who may be saved by sticking to Rick’s plan, I will side with Rick as a fan. See, I told you it was bullshit.
- Fill in the blank. I felt ________ when I saw the jeep and explosives all catch on fire?
Briana: unsurprised. Definitely something they made very clear from the moment they showed the gas dripping. It did solve the fight though. (There is that. It did, in fact, stop the fight. I could have gone for more sleeper holds though, but that’s the wrestling fan in me.)
Bob: it was obvious what was going to happen (It reminds me of when Rick and Daryl first met Jesus and they lost all the food in that truck. It also reminded me of a song from Bob’s Burgers, and since your name is Bob, and not Joe, I felt this would be a good time to listen.)
Brian: AWESOME!! I told you so!!!! (I so wish I could have simply observed you watching this particular episode.)
Kristi: Indifferent. Didn’t really have many feeling towards it.
Raylene: Annoyed that they just wasted perfectly good ammunition because of a stupid fight. (Bitches be catty, YO! And Daryl is possibly the biggest bitch of them all, soooo there you go.)
Kent: Deja Vu. Seriously, this was the meeting Jesus episode again, and then I laughed at their silly fighting.
- DId Father Gabriel get bit or is it something else?
Briana: My first instinct is that he was bitten but I have a feeling that’s what they want me to think. (You are right, they definitely want us to think that. Will they go for the swerve? Is this Glenn under a dumpster all over again?)
Bob: The bite effect wouldn’t seem to have happened that quickly. I think it is panic or hysteria. Maybe he caught the flu. Gabriel doesn’t have a strong constitution… (I agree with your last sentiment a lot. Regarding the time frame, if you’ve been paying attention since day 1, you will have noticed that the timing thing is a tool of convenience. I wish it was more than that, but I feel we have seen some big fluctuations. Quite frankly, it could simply come down to somebody who got sick all of the time vs somebody who rarely got sick prior to the ZA and their immune system adding longevity to the flu and it’s symptoms.)
Brian: a ploy to get out of the cell! (This being the other obvious thing, contrary to what I just wrote to Bob.)
Kristi: He got bit. His time is up. I’m thinking his death will inspire Eugene to help Dwight. (I hope that you are partially right. Is that a dickheaded thing to say? I honestly don’t want Eugene to help Dwight, not yet at least. Dwight and Eugene have so much potential in story arcs, that I am cool if some twists and turns occur.)
Raylene: My first thought was he got bite fighting to get to the trailer that him and Negan were trapped in and finally showing symptoms once in Sanctuary. (This seems to be the most likely scenario.)
Kent: I will say this again. Gabe’s death in the comic was uneventful and didn’t help the narrative in any capacity and quite frankly felt lazy. I would rather Gabe die earlier in the show if his death serves a purpose. We never see him get bit, which is a TWD staple. I still believe that Rick was standing at Gabe’s grave in the season opener, as I alluded to back then, and I think walker Gabe is going to bite somebody else that fans may like…..or Tara.
- They talked about the previous leader of the Savior’s prior to Negan taking over. Do you think that we will ever get more info on this?
Briana: This had me really questioning where Negan came from and how he got to this point. I don’t think they will go into a lot of detail on the previous leader so much as maybe give us a little Negan backstory. At least his over throwing of said leader. (I really think that this will be the end of Negan’s backstory for awhile, and possibly ever. There may be opportunities in the future, but that is all conjecture at this point. If so, hopefully Carl is the one who uncovers the truth.)
Bob: No, that’s over. The point wasn’t the past, it was the present and future. (I regrettably think that you are correct. In my rant, you will see why. Missed opportunity.)
Brian: I hope they show how negan used his awesome leadership skills to save 100s of people’s lives..
Kristi: I see flashbacks in our future. (Maybe, but I wouldn’t be willing to bet my hairline on it. I feel that this show is so jam packed with characters, it’s not willing to delve too deeply beyond one episode to really explore a character’s past.)
Raylene: No I don’t see any more of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mKk7CMTBJQ
Kent: I don’t think that it would serve much of a purpose if I am going to be honest. If they wanted to show it or tell it, they would have in this episode. They could have given us a whole Negan backstory episode similar to Morgan and Eastman and it would have been well worth the time. We could have cut out a good 45 minutes of random guns firing and car chases to have given us the proper story with flashbacks of Negan. Actually, allow me to go one step further. I think it was a bullshit move on TWD’s part for not giving us this episode. This episode kinda made Negan a little too likable compared to the books. I don’t care about the likable factor, but the story added a human factor that really fleshed out Negan. It’s kinda like how they didn’t do Abe justice in his backstory on the show. They didn’t show what happened to Abe’s family and they should have to add to Abe’s sorrow and hopelessness. When this show explores the characters, especially their past, it really is when the show is at it’s best and they failed the fans a bit in this one.
- To go along with the last question, do you think it is possible that Simon was the previous leader as was discussed on Talking Dead?
Briana: He would fit the vibe I got from their talking of the guy but I don’t feel like someone who was dethroned by Negan would still be alive and have that much power. (Therein lies the caveat. Was Negan always as ruthless, or did he takeover in a similar way as Rick took over Alexandria? I know the natural inclination of fans is to assume that there was a lot of bloodshed, but maybe it was very different. Still, I doubt the leader is alive, but I suppose somebody like Negan would love to keep that person under his thumb for awhile.)
Bob: Nah, I think it was simply Simon getting a little heady and giving himself too much room… (More than likely. Honestly, I am struggling picturing Simon ruling a place as big as Sanctuary.)
Brian: Simon has always been Negans number 2. They were separated when the disaster started but have since been reunited. Simon may have gathered the numbers to start the saviors until the true leader could return. (I would love to know how long Simon and Negan have been together. This is something that I would love to have answered.)
Raylene: I don’t think it was him I do think he was here when Negan took over, although perhaps the vibe then was to kill everyone they encounter due to his plan for the Hillside. (I’ve often wondered if the plan all along was to have Simon run Hillside and just tell Gregory to fuck off.)
Kent: I’m going to say no. Although the theory intrigues me, I am saying that Simon wouldn’t enjoy his role as much as he does now if he had been in charge previously. Honestly, Gavin seems more pissed off than Simon and would be a more likely candidate in my mind. More than likely the previous leader has been chained at the gate for some time now. Still, I enjoy the random theories.
- Gabriel seemed concerned about Dr. Carson’s well being. Do you think Dr. Carson will get to deliver Maggie’s baby?
Briana: At this point I think they have to let Glenn’s baby be delivered and healthy. That was the beginning of how he gets back to Maggie to deliver her baby. (I do believe that the baby will be delivered and healthy. I really hope that they use the same name as they did in the comics. Who knows though? In the comics, Lori delivers the baby and is running while Governor is invading and shoots and kills Lori and the baby. Sooooo obviously things are different.)
Bob: Ahh, he was in hysterics basically. In reality we wouldn’t take that seriously but on the show…. Maybe Gabriel know she has an infection and wants to save the Dr. (On the show, everything means something, except those things that mean nothing.)
Brian: pure selfishness on his part.. act concerned to show he’s harmless then try and escape.. (What a great ploy this is though in all fairness.)
Kristi: I do. I think Eugene will help in getting him out and he will get back to her. (I think that you are more correct than you realize.)
Raylene: I hope so but Maggie should have some training from Herschel on birthing even though he was a vet. (True, but let’s not forget the last time Maggie was around a birth. Carl had to put Lori down and everybody cared way more about Lori’s death than T Dog’s selfless sacrifice to save Carol which is still paying dividends for the group while Judith still isn’t pulling her own weight.)
Kent: Yes, yes I do.This is all setting something up for the second half of this season and that’s all I will say.
- In a case where Negan died or became incapacitated, who would be the best leader for the Saviors in your opinion? Please don’t pick anybody who is currently a leader such as Rick, Maggie, Ezekiel, or Janis.
Briana: I’d think this group would be Daryl’s kind of people. He and Dwight could turn things around. (It’s a shame that Daryl didn’t have some of the Claimers left to help. That would work out pretty fun. And then the next time him and Rick had a lover’s quarrel, we could have ALL OUT WAR 2!)
Bob: Gavin. He is not a traitor, not a hot head, not power hungry and not a wimp. He would be a better LEADER and sees through the nonsense. (I kinda wish I had read this prior to answering #7. I think that Gavin is actually very underrated. From what we have been shown, he basically tried to keep the arrangement with the Kingdom going as smoothly as possible and he punished Jared when warranted. I think he makes a TON of sense, and I honestly think that Rick could work with him peacefully.)
Brian: I think that Eugene with Jerry as his number 2/ enforcer. (I just want to see see their meetings. It would be a true delight. This would be amazing.)
Raylene: I think Gregory would do good there he would have henchman to put his rules in action. (Gregory would work if he had people to back up his words. He’s no fool, and could be a decent leader as long as stuff stayed peaceful.)
Kent: Carol or Carl. I say Carol because they would have them Saviors baking some good cookies. Carl would be fun because he’s learned some from his dad, and Carl wouldn’t take shit from anybody. I think either character would work great here. My third option would be Kent…obviously.
Bonus Deuce
- Rick appears to be on a mission to meet the Scavengers again. How do you see this playing out?
Briana: Well, I trusted them last time and we saw how that turned out. I have a gut feeling this time they’ll make a deal and keep it but I’m shooting myself in the foot already for that. (I’m fearing that you may be walking like Herschel sooner than later. Your poor foot.)
Bob: I see the alliance wiping out the Scavengers by foolery. (This seems like the most logical conclusion. Do they go logical or TWEEST is the big question. Also, very sad that you didn’t say Tom foolery. It just seems funnier that way.)
Brian: Rick will do like he always does and get more people killed so he can act tough. (The thing is, even when you are knee deep in your conspiracy theories, you’re not wrong here. This is going to happen, I think.)
Raylene: I see Jadis siding with him since Rick seems to have the upper hand now. (Soooo, Rick is now John Doe? Whose head is in the box then?)
Kent: I really like Pollyanna and I would love more story on the Scavengers, but this feels like a group similar to the Termites/Hunters or the Wolves or the Vatos. I don’t think they are long for this world. I really like Pollyanna though, or Jadis.
- Daryl, Tara, and Morgan appear to all be of a similar mindset. Do you foresee any of them doing something that puts the group in danger?
Briana: No. Unfortunately I think their mindset is what’s keeping people alive. Look at what happened with the Kingdom. They killed everyone on sight, before they even knew how many were on them and they stayed alive until the one time they didn’t. Then they all died. So if I’m going based on past events, I’m thinking these are the ones who are making sense right now. (They are making sense, and I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing. They aren’t the moral compass, but they are right and being right can be a death sentence. If that sentence ends with Tara getting got, well then we will have a happy Kent.)
Bob: Nope, Morgan, “aint right.” There’s really no way to mess up this war unless you are a traitor. (Well, there is a tactic that may be deployed that hasn’t been explored yet in the show that may be an absolute game changer. Just sayin’.)
Brian: They will put themselves in danger by not following Rick’s orders. And their kill all saviors will lead them to all brutal deaths at the hand of lucille.. (Really, if this happened, a lot of people would be pissed, but this would be a HUGE shake up for the show. It’s one of those hypotheticals that I would love to see play out in hypothetical land. I still want Morgan to live.)
Raylene: No I see that someone will always put them in place. (Yeah, they’re always being held down by the man. It’s not fair.)
Kent: I believe this will be a case of one best check themselves before they wreck themselves. I hope Tara’s aggression goes unchecked. If Tara and Daryl go on a suicide mission, I will laugh.
Final Thoughts
Brian: a great mellow blues great named his trusty guitar lucille.. and a great mellow leader named his trusty defender lucille.. could negan be the ZA bb king? (Like I’m not going to link this song to go with your words.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0Ujb6lJ_mM
Raylene: Will we have a multiple major character death by mid season finale? (Yes, I guarandamtee it.)
Kent: I say that Tara dies in the midseason finale, and I am just counting down the days. Huh, the midseason finale happens on December 10th…..my birthday. Oh it’s true, it’s damn true. Tara is as good as dead. Plus, per IMDB, the description for that episode reads: “This mid season finale will put everything Rick and his group has done to this point to the test. Can Rick continue to fight? Or has he lost his will?” Yeah, this will be where we see the scenes from the season premiere with the graves.
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