Well, it finally happened. Carl is dead. Gavin is dead. Henry is a killer. Much like the show, we have lost some people, but we continue on. Happy belated birthdays to both Brian and Bob. If you are interested in joining the group, leave Kent a message/comment, or email me at superkent@gmail.com
With that being said, as always, all comments in BOLD are written by me. Some are serious, most are silly. Please enjoy and share this with friends. Go ahead, I dare you.
____________________________________________
The 9
- Let’s start off with sheer speculation. We have officially lost one of the original 5, and are down to the original 4 with Rick, Carol, Daryl, and Morgan. Assuming another one of these 4 dies before the show concludes, who do you have dying next?
Bob: Daryl. I don’t have an explanation…. (If the ratings continue to plummet, Daryl’s death could put the nail in the coffin of contract renewal negotiations. I think this show can go 12 seasons, but the more I talk to people, the more I start to wonder if the whispers are true.)
Bitty: Carol (Booooo Bitty, boooo. She probably is. This show clearly doesn’t like people with a C A R or L in their name. Think about that!)
Kristi: Assuming one of the 4 leaves, I would have to go with Darryl. I don’t think the show could go on without Rick and Michonne. Of course, I kinda felt that way with Carl too so I’m probably wrong. (Michonne would be a huge loss. He comic counterpart (Andrea) got killed in the fall. I don’t think that will happen on the show though. Too important of a demographic.)
Chris: Morgan. Rick isn’t going to die, and I can’t see Michonne or Daryl dying anytime soon. Morgan is, to me, one of the most interesting characters on the show, but he’ll be the next of the originals to go. (Finally, somebody agrees with me. Morgan will be involved with Fear The Walking Dead this season and as great as Lennie James is, I could see him landing some great film roles as lead. Plus Snatch was a fantastic film.)
Kent: I think I could have realistically said anybody from the first 3 seasons, and that would have included Michonne and Maggie, but I don’t think anybody would have picked them anyway. Morgan is my answer because he’s the only black guy and TWD hasn’t killed any big name black guys off in a while.Rick is the only one that I am absolutely saying no to.
- Gavin also died this episode, and as we know, he is one of Negan’s top assistants. The show seemed to try to show some duality in death between Gavin and Carl. Would you have held off on Gavin’s death for a different episode because it was getting overshadowed by Carl’s demise, or was it needed to drive home TWD’s point?
Bob: I think TWD was trying to maybe balance the pain of Carl’s death that some KBalls out there couldn’t handle. It didn’t work. (Owww, my pride. It didn’t work is right.)
Bitty: TWD def looked to find a parallel but I would’ve rather had the focus on Carl. He deserved it. (Agreed. This should have been all about Carl.)
Kristi: I like that he was taken out. And by a child! I think that was a power play. (That was a power play. Good to see Henry getting some shine!)
Chris: I don’t think it was needed to drive home a point, but it was needed to break up with the story a little bit. The show has been accused in the past of dragging on. If they had devoted a full episode just to Carl, they would have had to cram the Kingdom scenes into another episode. Plus Ezekiel was in immediate danger, so they had to resolve it. (Shit, I can’t remotely argue with that reasoning. You’re right, the show gets accused of many things by many loud, obnoxious people, myself included. It’s at a point where they can’t appease everybody, and the Kingdom stuff was mostly well done, so it’s really hard to fault them.)
Kent: I would have held off on Gavin’s death. I get what they were trying to accomplish, and I liked most of the Kingdom stuff this week. I would have rather had them take Gavin hostage, but at least it was Henry getting vengeance for his brother. I can’t be mad at that. Still, Gavin deserved to on Talking Dead damnit!!!
- Were you satisfied with the explanation of the futuristic visions with “Old Man Rick” that the show provided?
Bob: ahhh. I was befuddled when I saw Negan. I still am. (I think that is going to be a scene that people forget even happened in 2 years from now.)
Bitty: Yes!!! I loved that they wrapped this up. Made sense to me. Makes me wonder if the “picnic table” scene was another vision of a character who will pass or who has passed. (I had forgotten about the picnic table scene, still missing Abe though. Now that they have revealed that these scenes are “visions” will we ever get another one? I’m going to say no.)
Kristi: I was a little confused by it when Negan showed up. I did feel good about the explanation at first but the Negan thing threw me. Like, are they all just going to be BFF’s in the future? (Spoiler alert: no, not really, but with Carl’s death, it’s possible. You and I will chat and I will explain how Carl’s death leaves open this possibility.)
Chris: Sure, but why is he the only one who looks 10 years older??? (Thank you!!! Eugene looks normal. Negan looked like he may have aged slightly. Rick looks rough. It’s weird.)
Kent: Here’s my problem, and it’s minor perhaps, but I need to bitch about it. Rick has a cane in these visions. Do you know why he has a cane? I’m looking at the contributors and speculating that maybe one of you may know why. In the comic, toward the end of this great war, Rick suffers an injury, and it seems likely that it may occur, or so I thought. I don’t think Rick is going to suffer the injury or else it means that Carl is Miss fucking Clio! They have to be aware of that problem. It was fine when those readers recognized the time lapse and the cane. Making it into Carl’s vision though, it wouldn’t make sense for the injury to occur.
- If Henry hadn’t killed Gavin, are you 100% positive that Morgan was going to kill Gavin?
Bob: Yes. If it was Rick, I feel like there would have been that 11th hr moment and he pulls back. Morgan is committed. Morgan is mentally Ill. (I would ask, are most people mentally ill, given what they have seen and done to still be alive in that world? I’m already a nut job. If I had to do all of that stuff and survived, I would be clinically insane I would speculate. Yes, that 11th hour BS would have happened.)
Bitty: I don’t think he would’ve killed him. (I agree with you. I kept saying to myself that Morgan isn’t going to do it because of a few things, but how he was portrayed earlier in the season, that told me no. I have more reasoning in my answer.)
Kristi: I was pretty sure he would have killed him but I feel like it would have left a pretty bad feeling in him. I think he would have regretted it and would have given him some negative Morgan feelings. We don’t need that. (Morgan doesn’t need anymore on his conscience at the moment. This is actually another reason why I am saying No to this question. Had he done it, I don’t know how Lennie portrays Morgan’s descent further into madness.)
Chris: I think he would have killed him. While Ezekiel does seem to be able to get through to Morgan, he seems to have gone over the edge. I mean, he did just gut someone right before that. (I swear they went to that extreme level of the gutting to make people feel that Morgan was going to do it. It definitely was smart to work people’s emotions with that.)
Kent: This season of TWD, whenever you think you can say “This isn’t going to happen” and you feel 100% sure it will, some weird random nonsense happens. This season has been marred with that, and really, this was no different. Ezekiel, nor Carol, was going to get through to Morgan on this one. They should have kept him for leverage, obviously. So when I knew that Morgan wasn’t going to be stopped by reason, I had to assume he wasn’t going to get this kill. He deserves to get the kill on Jared, the asshole with the long hair.
- How do you prefer your Morgan: A) level headed down to Earth Morgan B) Crazy Morgan. Please choose A or B, there are no other options. This is a simple one or the other question.
Bob: B. An A Morgan is too altruistic for this time. B is necessary to live. I want him on my side because he will surely die but he will take down a large number of enemies before doing so. (Is this the first time we have seen altruistic used on this blog? I think so. Yes, Morgan is that guy you want on your side, in some ways better than Rick. Rick’s actions have led to many deaths of people on his team. Morgan, not so much.)
Bitty: B (Could you try to shorten your responses in the future, please?)
Kristi: This is hard. I have to go with level-headed Morgan. He seems more effective to the group when he is sane but I really dug pulling the guts out Morgan. It pleased me to see the crazy. (Yes, watching the guts being pulled out was Nicotero having some fun. I liked the scene because it felt like horror. We don’t always get that horror vibe in this show.)
Chris: Level-headed Morgan. The group needs a level-headed person. (It has Tobin. What more do you need? Haha. There are not many level headed people. The black chick at The Kingdom, I can’t think of her name, but she is. I love her!)
Kent: B, did you honestly think I would choose A? Crazy Morgan gives us great scenes. That was easy like a Sunday morning.
- Will Rick embrace Siddiq this season or will they keep their distance?
Bob: Second to last episode they will bond and the last episode will confirm it. (I think it will happen towards the end of the season. My answer will echo a lot of what you said here.)
Bitty: I think Maggie will embrace him more than Rick. He will stay at the Hilltop. (I think another girl will embrace him even more than Maggie! Awwwww shit, I just gave you a cliffhanger.)
Kristi: Yes, I think he will take him in as an Ally this season. (It feels inevitable, or else it’s almost a slap in the face to the memory of his son.)
Chris: I think he may be too preoccupied with ending the war this season. I do think Siddiq will prove to be a valuable ally. (I think Rick won’t be so much focused on allying with Siddiq, but Siddiq will get the opportunity to prove his value.)
Kent: Will he has medical training. Rick should do everything he can to make this man happy. Siddiq will have to have somebody to work with though that has some medical background. Who could it be? I would put $20 down on a bet right saying that Siddiq saves Rick in one of those convenient moments that TWD is notorious for. Possibly before Rick suffers that injury that can’t happen now.
- Should Rick have tried to get Carl to Hilltop?
Bob: No. Which means in TWD language, yes. (You got me, I just laughed with a mouthful of food and almost choked. Kudos!)
Bitty: No. It wouldn’t have made a difference. (You’re right, with Dr. Carson missing, there was no way to try to combat this. The damage was done.)
Kristi: It wouldn’t have made a difference. I think it ended well with Carl. That would have made for more travel time and less quality time. (Yes, we need more emotional sappy scenes. This a hallmark of TWD.)
Chris: No. It would have put everyone in danger, plus he wouldn’t have made it. (Your answer is probably closest to my thoughts. This reminded me of them trying to get Maggie to the Hilltop. One Ginger and one Korean later, it turned out to be a poor decision.)
Kent: Hell no. This was what they wanted to do the visions reveal. Plus, he simply wasn’t going to recover, he was in pain. This was the most humane way to handle it.
- We only saw a few people get to say goodbye to Carl (Rick, Michonne, Daryl, Judith, and Siddiq I believe). Pick one other character living or dead that you would have liked to say goodbye to Carl.
Bob: Enid, for the romantic aspect of course. (Go on. Yeah, good choice. We should totally post that on Twitter and then go get our hair done together.)
Bitty: I kinda wish Negan had seen him die. (I had it down to Negan or another person. I had Negan for the comic book’s reasons. I think it could have made the dichotomy between Rick and Negan just a bit different.)
Kristi: A flashback to his Mom would have been interesting. (I was hoping that somebody would pick Lori. I was also hoping that somebody would say Sophia as well. Will Rick start seeing Carl all in white is the big question.)
Chris: I will pick Negan, just for how funny the conversation would be! (This response may or may not contain spoilers. In the comics, when the war is over, Negan is held prisoner. Let’s not forget, they showed us that prison cell for a reason, so most of you had safely assumed that. One of the absolute best things in the comic was after the war, Carl would come and visit Negan and they had these cool conversations. This is a reason I am so pissed off about killing Carl off. So that’s part of why Negan was my runner-up.)
Kent: This one is possibly more of a sentimental shout out, but Herschel is my choice. Herschel and Carl had some very cool scenes together. I would have loved to hear Herschel’s sage words in Carl’s final minutes. Herschel will always be the grandfather figure of the group, to me at least.
- Which group will have the bigger impact the rest of season 8: Oceanside or the Scavengers (Jadis’ group)?
Bob:
now change changes to Jadis’s (THAT right there is how you get a gold star post Olympics.)
Bitty: My answer is Oceanside. Kinda because I know how much Kent loves Oceanside. (This fucking girl. “Kinda”. Listen Bitty, that was 100% your reasoning, and I get it. Rest assured, I’ll be miserable again this season as soon as I see that terrible place again.)
Kristi: Oceanside, simply because I dislike the Scavengers greatly.. (You and I are similar in this, only exactly the opposite.)
Chris: Oceanside. I think the Scavengers have officially pissed Negan off. That doesn’t usually work out well. (I am curious to see how that unfolds between Negan and The Scavengers. I am wondering if Negan really wants to start a war with them as well at the moment. He may.)
Kent: Scavengers. If you expected a different response, then this is probably your first time reading this blog. As Chris mentioned, the Scavengers and Negan dynamic is pretty fascinating.
Bonus Deuce
- How did you feel about Negan being in one of those futuristic visions, picking tomatoes? Was it for shock value or foreshadowing?
Bob: Shock value. This was an insane future. (Right? You would think he would be a cucumber guy from hanging out with Eugene so much.)
Bitty: It was uncomfortable. Like silence of the lambs uncomfortable. (You don’t do horror well. I have some stuff here that would you feel very comfortable. Today is opposite day.)
Kristi: I enjoyed it. I can see them getting along in the future. Like, keep him captive and eventually let them all see the way of Carl. Can’t they all just along? (If only they had spent 3 more minutes on Negan’s story when him and Gabriel were talking and cut out some unnecessary gun fight, I think that would have really supported your thoughts here.)
Chris: I almost think it was a wink and nod to the comics. It was a little weird to see him given everything he’s done. (Absolutely a wink and a nod. No doubt. Robert Kirkman definitely patted himself on the back after that one.)
Kent: I really hate tomatoes. Just pick another thing. Pick rhubarb. It doesn’t matter. Still, I loved this scene and it proved that Carl knew Negan better than anybody else.
- Do you think Gavin actually liked Ezekiel and his personality or did he only like Ezekiel because most of the time, they had no issues with deliveries?
Bob: The latter. Plus that’s just Gavin’s way of speaking.
Bitty: I think Gavin liked the fact that Ezekiel never gave him issue making him look good in front of Negan.
Chris: I think Gavin actually liked Ezekiel. Gavin wasn’t as bad as the rest of the generals. I don’t think Gavin enjoyed killing.
Kent: Yeah, I am agreeing with Chris on this one Gavin strikes me as a guy who felt lucky to find a group like the Saviors that he could thrive in and took his job and his role to heart. He was always sick of Jared’s shit. He definitely felt bad about Benjamin’s death. Compared to Negan, Simon, or Arat, I think Gavin was a normal guy in an unusual situation.
Final Thoughts
Bitty: Who’s the future now? Judith?? Shake my head. (Give her to Carol and in 5 years, watch out!)
Chris: It’s going to be interesting to see where the show goes without Carl. He is a very important character in the next arc in the comics. I’m also interested in what’s going to happen with Oceanside.
Kent: We’ve had some people leave this group, which is sad. I hope that we can recruit others. It is an indication of interest in this show. The ratings show it, this blog shows it. I haven’t lost faith in this show, but I think we are officially on the downturn of this franchise. I hope this half-season renews my zest for the show. I’ll keep watching it even if it becomes a soul-crushing endeavor, but I would prefer to have a good time with it.
All the pictures used in this blog are for review purposes. They are the property of:
- American Movie Classics (AMC) (presents)
- Circle of Confusion
- Valhalla Motion Pictures (as Valhalla Entertainment)
- Darkwoods Productions
- AMC Studios
- Idiot Box Productions
Please go find a copy and support the creators.